Have you ever argued with a fellow christian over something the bible says, and all they do is toss bible verses left and right? I have found this is a number 1 red flag you are dealing with a pharisee. This is not to say we shouldn’t read our bible, on the contrary, Infact we should read every line of it. However, Christianity is not a black and white faith- we should know what god expects from us, for it is written in our hearts, without citing bible verses word for word for every petty disagreement.
When a lawyer goes to court he researches the laws surrounding the case. He takes his list of laws and penal codes to the judge to defend his case along with all the evidence of the situation. The lawyers goal is to win a legal dispute by debating facts, presenting laws, and contrasting the point of his view with the other lawyer. The judge sits back and watches this debate, acting only as a mediator until he passes a verdict. The only trouble with this is, we as Christians are not Lawyers- it was infact only the pharisees who debated scripture in such a manner. We as christians are servants, not masters and servants do not get law degrees. Additionally, In the setting when we argue there is no judge to mediate and pass a verdict. Never answer such a pharessie by citing bible verses, that is not what their interest is or what is in their heart. Their interest is to rebuttal and debate and argue like a lawyer going back and forth.
If you read your bible, as so many pharisees certainly have, then quoting a mountain of scripture to prove your point is truly unnecessary. If say the setting is something like a bible study then certainly- but arguing with someone is just not the place and time to drag god into your wrath on someone else, as this is where it is the least constructive (not to mention it shows a lack of love for God as well as someone else). Anyone who has read the scripture and engraves it’s meaning into their heart, can tell when someone is speaking from the understanding of it well enough without the scripture even being mentioned.
So how do we Engrave the Bible into our hearts?
Its easy to do so, First read the bible, second look to it for every major problem you might have, third go well out of your way to under stand the context of why it says such and such, fourth seek out the prophets and test the spirits to find someone with reputable Biblical knowledge (the bible tells us how to find these people and test them). Lastly, pick the book apart for your own understanding piece by piece, be open to allowing your understanding to be challenged by even the most random and boring of things.
Yes when you know the bible like this and know your god, a pharisee will demand you support whatever rebuttal you have to them with another word for word Bible verse (and you better use proper grammar and spelling). I tell you Dont cite not one verse, and not one line to them. They will mock you and say your so uneducated, and you don’t know your bible because of it. Let it be so, when you rebuttal let your heart shine unto them, for your understanding of the text will be clearly demonstrated to them. Though they will not admit, it they will completely walk away from you and probably tell you even Satan knows scripture- just as light casts out darkness.The reason they even earnestly demand a cited verse is because they themselves have no understanding of god in their hearts nor does such a person even know Jesus Christ. For them the Bible is a crutch or a wheel chair, for you it is supposed to be nothing more then a guide. That is the difference between a Christian and a Pharisee. It stands to scrutiny, as for 1611 years the christian church flourished until the KJV was published and released freely to the public. In all that time do you seriously think people did not disagree on biblical understanding? No the bible was not ment for us to study like flash cards to always be ready for a pop quiz.
The best example of this “style of debate” comes to us from Jesus himself, however you can also see it with the prophets and disciples/apostles. You might have noticed when ever someone in the Bible talks about an earlier scripture, they hardly ever cite it word for word, yet what they say carries the same meaning. It is because they carried the scripture in their hearts (rather their mind) they can get away with this and become the influential people of the bible. I will list a few examples from the King James Version. (if that is an acceptable version for the Pharisees out there reading this).
Matthew 4: 8-10
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.
In this scene we see Jesus being tempted in the wilderness by satan. However the text Jesus refers to does not match up. We know for a fact the entire old testimate tells us the essence of “Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.” But there is not one verse in the old testament that words Jesus’s response to satan word for word, the closest is in Deuteronomy. Jesus here is speaking to satan from his heart not the text itself. But this example is too easy lets continue.
“Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ” John 6:31
“And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the Lord hath given you to eat.” Exodus 15:16
What I’d like to show here is not just a lack of word for word quote rather a common argument I see with the spirit of the Pharisee. Nit picking every last detail for the sake of arguing. Jesus refers to it as bread, so does Moses, but the Israelites call it “Manna”. What does it amount to? absolutely nothing, “Manna” and “Bread” are the same thing in this instance. The petty argument I hear with countless other verses is often something to the effect:
Christian– “I would really like to eat some of the Manna god sent down to feed the jews, just to see for myself what it tasted like”
Pharisee– “Well Jesus said it was bread so its called Bread. The israelites werent Jesus or Moses so the name ‘Manna’ is wrong. Also they were called the ‘Children of Israel’ not jews. Additionally, you should never spell God in lower case, it shows disrespect. Not to mention The BREAD was ONLY ment for the children of israel because they absolutely needed food while wondering the desert. God will not perform such miracles now, those days are over. Lastly the bible tells us it tasted like coriander seed so thats all you need to know about it”
You might be a Pharisee if you nit pick the details in 4-6 times the amount of sentences someone provided to you, that you felt the need to debate. Do we really need to debate which is the real name of it when we all know something “Bread like” fell from the sky to feed the children of Israel? Does ‘Jew’ and ‘Children of Israel’ have such a difference we cant just say Jews? Grammar issues, setting barriers of faith, and the lack of common sense that no one can know what something tastes like by reading a book. Was all this absolutely a necessary argument, or could the pharisee simply just bite their tongue and say:
“I guess we will have to wait for heaven to ask God for some”
The next example begs the question, Did god really say that or did you say that?
Pharisee– “God says Wine and alcohol is an abomination and we are never to even touch it”
That is a lie from the pit of hell, you really have to have a stick up your butt to think god doesnt want people to enjoy themselves or have fun. You really have to be a pharisee to put words in gods mouth that just arnt there. Was jesus first miracle turning water into wine? do you think he would do that if he didnt want people to drink? I have been surprised to find God is particularly fond of wine and people drinking together, so long as we are not becoming sloppy drunk. It’s actually pretty hard to find a verse in the bible condemning it, it actually tells us how to make it and instructs us to only drink quality aged wine. Whats more important here is you can not just say “God said __________” you have to back it up better then that. Whats also important you cant just make things up thats only youre cultural taboo. Part of bible study is understanding a concept called “Cultural relativism”, Theres things we in america consider bad that in times past was considered the best thing that ever happened- Wine is one specific example. Heres just a short list of bible verses on wine if interested on the subject, you dont have to dig very deep at all to see God and the bible is pretty favorable to wine.
Psalm 104:15 And wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen man’s heart.
Proverbs 31:7 Let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.
Isaiah 55:1 “Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
Joel 2:19 The Lord answered and said to his people, “Behold, I am sending to you grain, wine, and oil, and you will be satisfied; and I will no more make you a reproach among the nations.
Deuteronomy 14:26 And spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.
Now the next example Is quoting scripture WAY out of context for the sake of just quoting scripture and holding a “Holier then thou” stance. The trouble with this one is I cant point to any one specific verse, because every verse is subject to a Pharisee doing this. I trust each and every christian has ran into this, but I can give a recent conversation I had with someone about it. I copied and pasted the online conversation below. I was saying the Bible tells us directly what Sodom and Gomorrah did, but he insisted the only thing they did was have gay people. I pretty much just left the conversation, you can see how he just tosses verses around that are completely unrelated to the topic of Sodom and Gomorrah for the sake of telling me I’m going to hell and he’s holier then me (funny i’m not even gay, or particularly care about gay people). You could read the whole conversation which is very lengthy, or you can reflect on your own experiences with arguing with such a person- either way I’m ending this article here with the simple message:
Don’t Argue With a Pharisee!
Pharisee– The punishment for the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah was mostly because of homosexual practices as well bisexual and sodomy, which is having sex with an animal. Nothing that anyone who says homosexuality is not wrong, can change what God has prescribed for the survival and prosperity of humanity.
Me- The bible doesnt say any of that about sodom and gomorrah. Ezekiel 16:49-50 “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.” that was the sin, it was a cease pool of selfishness and a free for all. Sex just being one thing.
Pharisee- The Bible doesn’t say anything about that? Then what about:
“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-11:
“Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice “homosexuality”, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”
And there’s a lot more.
Don’t judge me I’m only sharing the content, I didn’t write it. I choose to listen to reason and accept only facts if they are backed up by observation along with whatever is written.
Getting angry at me will not do you any good nor stop God from inflicting punishment on wrong-doers as well.
Me- As a christian you are free to eat pork, and wear clothes of mixed fabric. These are the same laws forbidden in leviticus as a Abomination, yet christians do these things every day. It is Amazing how you feel you can pick and choose what laws are no longer important and what laws are. Now don’t get me wrong I’m not mad- But as christians we are not bound to any laws of the Bible except for Christs law AKA The Royal Law.
The city of Sodom and Gemorrah was taken down because the men in the streets wanted to rape the angels, They were selfish people and greedy… Their Judgement came from a laundry list of Sinfulness, it was cease pool of corrupted hearts and people that rejected God in every possible way- not just gay people.
BTW that word “Homosexuality” in 1 corinthians is only available in NIV as well as ESV. KJV, the Ancient greek texts, and many others all used a very different word that carried a very different meaning.
Pharasee- Forgive me but I noticed a couple of contradictions here.
First off you are saying that “As a christian you are free to eat pork, and wear clothes of mixed fabric.” And then say “These are the same laws forbidden in leviticus as a Abomination, yet christians do thiese things every day.”
So Christians are people who are not supposed to eat pork and wear clothes of mixed fabric but they are still Christians otherwise despite breaking the law.
How can anyone call themselves Christians if they are breaking the very rules that define a Christian? That doesn’t make any sense. They would not be called Christians there on, they would be called hypocrites, as in people who only say by mouth that they practice or do something but their their actions say the opposite.
That’s like saying a person can still be a police officer just by wearing a uniform while he’s out robbing people.
That’s also like saying a person can still be a doctor even though he doesn’t practice medication or holds a doctorate.
That is completely stupid and a lie.
As for the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, they were indeed destroyed because they practiced not only homosexuality predominantly but also bisexuality, and sodomy, having sex with an animal.
The crimes of homosexuality are isolated only with 1 corinthians but also with:
“Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin”
“If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.”
“But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness…. Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.
So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.
That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.”
And there a lot more.
It’s not just 3-4 versions, it’s like 10 or more according to Biblegateway: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2018:22&version=WEB
If majority of these early passages speak against these abominable acts, (murder, rape, torture, deceiving, stealing and homosexuality), then it shouldn’t give anyone a second thought about they are supposed to do next.
Me- That was my point The Contradiction is with you. We eat bacon all the time yet it is forbidden in Leviticus. Mixed fabric too, in fact Cotton and polyester are nearly always blended together for every sock and tee shirt. You can not say we as christians cant be gay but can eat bacon because they are both written in as abominations.
We call ourselves Christians Because we are subject to the New Law. It is called “The Royal Law” it was given to us by Jesus Christ. This means very literally all the laws of Moses (including the 10 commandments) are voided because we find Salvation in Jesus!!! Where as before we were required to create our own salvation (which was the point of god sending those laws). This was the whole point of Jesus!!! it is because we can not be perfect people we may still find salvation by calling unto him!For better understanding Read the Book of Galatians, Paul goes on and on in that book about what I’m talking about.
While reading the Bible is better, Try watching “Stay Free” series by the Fuel Project.
Other then that the book of Romans was specifically pointing to Male prostitution along with all other forms of sexual immorality. Doesnt say a thing about gay marriage. There is no contradictions, your just looking at the bible in a very narrow lense. Legalism was the sin of the Pharisee’s that executed Jesus.
and wow I was just reading a verse by jesus… again for unrelated reasons but thought you might be interested, for some reason god must want you to consider what I tell you though.
“Assuredly, I say to you, tit will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!” matthew 10:15
So If I am wrong about sodom and gemorroah having such blackend hearts, then what I also tell you is im wrong in thinking the times of Revelation will be a world filled with sinners that god will cast his judgement on also. No i am even more convinced, were are not just talking about homosexuality, we are talking about a great many sins.
Seems to me you’re not the one reading well. It clearly says “more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city” The day they committed those sins because by then all of the evils will have been expunged.
Judgement Day is when every one of us dies and will be accounted for all of our good and bad deeds. This verse only means that that actions and sins of that city will not be as predominant or out of control on the Day of Judgement than it was that day when the sinners had gravely sinned.
Now I have something for you.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
And looky who does not get to enter Paradise.
“9 Or don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Don’t be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, “nor homosexuals”, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor extortionists, will inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 Such were some of you, but you were washed. But you were sanctified. But you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in the Spirit of our God.”
There it is “nor homosexuals” in case you missed it.
“No i am even more convinced, were are not just talking about homosexuality, we are talking about a great many sins.” So you even admit yourself that homosexuality is one of those sins? I’s sorry I was just pointing out.
But God would not give us freewill so we could do whatever we want with it without consequences or repercussions nor even allow specific things for us to do without reason.
That he paid for our debt of sins on the cross as a sacrificial lamb so that anyone can come to the lord by his name and his name only. And would you also tell them That God can lead them away from homosexuality if that is his will for his servant, or would you say god is incapable of doing so?
Pharisee- I’m sorry (I’m being serious not sarcastic) but I can’t understand what you have posted at least the first passage.
I should tell you from here on out that I am Muslim but I will also refute from the Bible if necessary.
There are some contradictions in the Bible especially when it comes to the part about Jesus in 1 Peter 2:24:
“He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.”
In another version it says in Isaiah 53:4:
“Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted.”
Christians believe that Jesus is God, but if he were he wouldn’t be punished by God.
In actuality and in the Bible itself Jesus never gave one direct unequivocal statement where he says “I am God worship me”.
But nevertheless all of these immoralities and sins are in fact punishable as anyone can witness by their own eyes.
The Bible does say in Matthew 7:21:
“”Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
and those who won’t are according to 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, said to be:
“9 Or don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Don’t be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor extortionists, will inherit God’s Kingdom. 11 Such were some of you, but you were washed. But you were sanctified. But you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in the Spirit of our God.”
Do you see it? “nor homosexuals,” just in case you missed it.
If homosexuality is among those other crimes which are known to be harmful to humanity, how can you then disagree with God?
The health risks involved with homosexuality are also mentioned at CDC which you can go see for yourself.
I am not doing this to hurt people who practice homosexuality but am actually trying to save them from making this mistake. It’s never too late to change friend.
Well that is the difference between islam and christianity then. We teach all may find salvation to heaven by calling on jesus, because he paid the debt of sins when he made himself a sacrifical lamb. (He made himself a sacrifical lamb in accordance to the laws of Moses). We also teach all who earnisty reach out for the lords guidence will be lead by god to live in accordance with his will.
(I am also being serious not sarcastic) All I was pointing out to you ,since your in my book not the quran, was the bible is clear why he judged these cities. Their hearts were wicked and so unrighteous they were to far gone to ever come back to the lord. I was also pointing out the great length God is willing to put up with before he decides to obliviate people.
None of this disagrees with God at all. Since your muslim I see the bible is new territory for you, and you made the mistake of taking things out of context. Yes leviticus says it’s an abomination and there is XYZ other verses… However, there was more going on in the city then just that…
Im certain a muslim understands the dark hearts of people like say ISIS. Tell me this Has God destroyed them overnight simply because they were killing innocent people?
If this were so God would have destroyed the whole world a LONG time ago. We’ve seen much more wicked people in every part of history then a terrorist group. When God decides to obliterate people (He only gives us 3 examples Noah, These Cities, and Revelation) Its only done because they are so wicked they can never be redeemed. It is because God is merciful he lets people like ISIS and gay people live.
So the delema you present is, it makes no contextual sense that he would destroy them for just one sin. It conflicts with everything we know about god, as well as conflicts with the story of the thing that happened.
And as a christian I would respectivly ask you try not converting people to christianity if you yourself know nothing about it.